By Jon Dougherty
(TNS) Fresh off a fact-finding trip to Ukraine and other Eastern European countries, presidential lawyer Rudy Giuliani appeared Monday on Fox News’ “The Ingraham Angle” to discuss what he had learned in regards to corruption tied to the Obama administration and Democrats.
During the program, host Laura Ingraham asked Giuliani some questions about sources he was using to gather information — a mission that he says President Donald Trump has tasked him with, given that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt places on the planet and the U.S. is still providing hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of aid.
Ingraham noted that Giuliani’s investigativeÂ work in Ukraine relies on the word of the former Prosecutor General, Yuriy Lutsenko. Hereâ€™s how he is described by The New Yorkerâ€™s Adam Entous in a forthcoming issue:
Lutsenko, sometimes referred to simply as â€˜the corrupt prosecutor generalâ€™ of Ukraine, has been portrayed, hardly without reason, as an unscrupulous politician prone to telling lies to further his personal ambitionsâ€¦Lutsenko fed information to Giuliani, which Giuliani, Trump and their allies spun to smear the reputations of the Bidens and of Yovanovitch whom Trump fired in April. One of the Houseâ€™s star witnesses told [Entous], of Lutsenko, â€œI donâ€™t think weâ€™d be here if not for him.â€
“This piece also has you on the record admitting that you forced out Marie Yovanovitchâ€¦So, why did you need her out of the way?â€ Ingraham asked.
I didnâ€™t need her out of the way. I forced her out because sheâ€™s corrupt. I came back with a document that will show unequivocally that she committed perjury when she said that she turned down the Visa for Mr. Shokin because of corruption.
The fact is, in the State Departmentâ€™s own records, the reason given is because he had an operation and hadnâ€™t recovered yet. The operation, of course, was two years before. Itâ€™s documentary evidence that she committed perjury. I have four witnesses who will testify that she personally turned down their Visas because they were going to come here and give evidence either against Biden or against the Democratic Party.
Thereâ€™s no question that she was acting corruptly in that position and had to be removed. She should have been fired if the State Department werenâ€™t part of the Deep Stateâ€¦
I have that testimony [of the four witnesses] under oath. I gave it to the State Department. They never investigated a single witness. When they say that sheâ€™s innocent, itâ€™s innocent without investigation.
As we reported Monday, Giuliani also claims he has evidence that Yovanovitch lied under oath, twice, during her weepy House impeachment testimony.
Witness Yuri Lutsenko, inheritor of Shokin’s office:
Records proving Amb Yovanovitch perjured herself at least twice.
Doc’s showing she was denying visas to witnesses who could prove Biden & Dem corruption.
Clear doc proof of money laundering by Burisma & Biden’s. pic.twitter.com/uHwa6PorLB
— Rudy W. Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 15, 2019
Ingraham pointed out that, during her testimony, Yovanovitch claimed thatÂ sheÂ was a corruption fighter. But Giuliani refuted that as well:
I also have tape recordings of Ukrainian officials including career prosecutors who say that during the Obama era, the corruption in Ukraine became substantially worse and that she was a contributor to the corruption.
For example, remember when she was asked at the end by Jim Jordan about how many things the Ukrainians had done, the statements that were made that he should be destroyed, his campaign should be destroyed, he was insane, the ambassador from the U.S. criticized.
She was asked, â€˜Did you ever go complain about that to the Ukrainian government?â€™ This is foreign interference in our election, right?’ The answer was no.
Also, when she talks about Shokin being corrupt, how come she didnâ€™t talk about the candidate she supported, [Petro] Poroshenko, who stole everything that didnâ€™t move? Poroshenko is right now under investigation for taking $100 million in bribes.
She was close to him, Biden was close to him. If they were worried about corruption, why werenâ€™t they worried about their friends who were taking millions?
Ingraham responded that it was “beyond obvious” that Ukrainian officials in 2015 and 2016 wanted Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton to win — probably because she’d be the deep state team player she’s always been and her party could continue assisting corrupt Ukrainian officials pilfer their own country.
When Ingraham asked Giuliani about an ABC News report claiming that several White House officials wish the former NYC mayor would simply go away and stop with the Ukraine probe, he responded:
Are there people in the White House who are saying it? That could be. Is it accurate that in some way, itâ€™s going to hurt to show the substantial amount of corruption that took place and that the President was doing what he should do when he asked for an investigation?
Iâ€™d say theyâ€™re buying into the Democratic spin. The fact is thereâ€™s nothing to be defensive about. Joe Biden was involved in a multi-million dollar scheme along with other Democrats. Itâ€™s never been resolved. Theyâ€™ve never been held to account.
As long as those issues remain between the United States and Ukraine, we really canâ€™t fight corruption in the Ukraine. And the fact is there are numerous Ukrainian witnesses that want to come to the United States and explain how much, during the Obama administration, Ukraine was corrupted by Americans.
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Our State Department, under Yovanovitch, went to the police and told them not to do the investigation and then they demanded they not do the investigation. You know why? Because our embassy was involved in wasting a great deal of that money by giving it to NGOs [non-government organizations].
And, when I was asked if the NGOs had a political bent, the answer I was given? They were Soros-like, they were left of left.
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